Kim Parkinson [00:00:00]:
Hello there, beautiful women. This is Kim Parkinson with podcasting for Spiritual Women. And today I have an amazing guest on. I have on Laurie Baines. She is a brand strategist and designer. And as a strategic designer and brand evolution partner, she guides female entrepreneurs through transformative brand alignment. With over 30 years of design mastery in an intuitive, soul aligned approach, she helps clients create brands that feel like home, clear, confident, and impossible to forget. Her work blends depth with precision, ensuring every visual and strategic choice reflects who they become and the impact they’re here to make.

Kim Parkinson [00:00:49]:
That is so powerful. Welcome, Laurie. Thank you so much for joining me.

Laurie Baines [00:00:55]:
Thank you so much for having me.

Kim Parkinson [00:00:57]:
Yeah. Do you want to add anything to that amazing bio?

Laurie Baines [00:01:02]:
It says so much. I think it really pours from the heart. One of the approaches that I have to my work is that I help you bring your brand from the inside out. Where most designers that are out in the world today are, it’s all about the visuals. It’s all about how things are looked and perceived. And what I hope to do with my work is realign that with who you are on the inside.

Kim Parkinson [00:01:30]:
Oh, that’s so fabulous for anyone, not just the audience that I have here, but I think that really does align with their values and what they’re looking for. They really do have a deep connection with a personal brand. Would you say it’s a lot about personal branding?

Laurie Baines [00:01:51]:
Absolutely. Even though your. Your company has its own brand, there is a very unique overlap from who you are as a person, as a human, what you’re here to do and how you actually bring it out into the world. So there is definitely an overlap in your own personal brand and your company’s brand.

Kim Parkinson [00:02:12]:
Yeah. Which do you think is actually more important, your personal brand or your professional brand?

Laurie Baines [00:02:20]:
I would say your personal brand because it is where authenticity starts. It is your identity, and it’s how you are showing up for others. Once you kind of own that, once you are able to really step into that power that you have inside, you’re unstoppable. So many things will shift in your business when you fully align with who you are. And it’s definitely a process. And I feel that your business as a brand is an extension of your personal brand. It’s an extension of who you are.

Kim Parkinson [00:03:04]:
I love that. Yeah. So do you ever feel like, and maybe this is completely opposite, do you ever feel like there’s a point when you stop having a personal brand and there’s only the professional brand, or do you think that the professionals have it wrong and they they shouldn’t have as much emphasis on a professional brand, and they should actually be more personally branding themselves.

Laurie Baines [00:03:31]:
Hmm, that is a really good question. I guess it depends. It would depend on the structure of the company, maybe, and the structure of the business. So if your brand as a business, if there’s multiple partners or if there is a whole team involved, it’s like you are actually bringing a collection of identities into the mix. And even though, you know, the core brand identity is. Is of yourself, there could be layers of others that become part of that bigger vision and that. That mission that you’re all working towards. So, yeah, that is a very interesting perspective.

Kim Parkinson [00:04:10]:
Yeah, I’ve just heard of a couple of people that I know personally, and they have mentioned how important it is, especially on LinkedIn, because I think that’s more of like a professional place where they want to have that personal brand because they may change jobs or they may, you know, change careers, but having that personal, personal bit to it really helps carry their followers from one to the other.

Laurie Baines [00:04:39]:
Yeah, oh, absolutely, absolutely. And when you’re showing up in that environment too, it’s not people are buying from people or they are recommending people. It’s not necessarily your business that they’re recommending. They’re recommending you because of, you know, something that, that you may have talked about or that they’ve read, something that you’ve shared with your audience. And so there is this connection, and it’s a personal conn action. And I think that that is very important.

Kim Parkinson [00:05:11]:
So what are the most common branding mistakes that you see entrepreneurs make early on?

Laurie Baines [00:05:18]:
Gosh, such a good question. And there are, you know, there’s several, but I’ll touch on a few. I find that those just starting out may skip the strategy or the planning stages and maybe jump right to colors or a logo or the pretty stuff. Oh, let’s get a photo shoot. And they kind of skip over the, well, what do I want my brand to stand for? Or what values of who I am do I want to bring into my brand? How do I want to show up? How do I want my message to be received out into the world? So they kind of skip some of those important things, and then it looks pretty, but it might be falling flat. And they may not be connecting with their ideal clients, and so they may not get as far as they would have hoped after a little while, and then they’ve got to go back and kind of do those things over again so that they can actually start with a solid foundation. I think that that is really important.

Kim Parkinson [00:06:24]:
I feel that. I feel that hard because I did the same thing. I started with some pretty colors, got a little logo, started with a little name.

Laurie Baines [00:06:33]:
And because people are visual, you know, they want. I’m excited about starting a business. I want to do something fun. I don’t want to have to dig deep and, you know, figure out all of the answers to all of these questions about, you know, how I want to show up and who I want to help. And what of all of the 10, 20 years of job experience do I want to bring into what I’m doing or do I not want to bring any of that in? You know, maybe I’m starting with something brand new that has been a passion of mine that I just really haven’t monetized in any way. So that is something that most people skip. And they also. Another thing that happens is they might follow trends that other people are.

Laurie Baines [00:07:16]:
Are doing. Oh, well, it worked for them. So, you know, it’s going to work for me. And everyone’s using this font, so I need to use it because then I will. I’m going to make it because you. I’m using this color palette or this font or, you know, this style of photography or whatever it is. That happens a lot, too. Another thing that happens is that not really niching down and figuring out who it is that is your ideal client, who it is that you’re talking to.

Laurie Baines [00:07:46]:
Because when you’re. When you’re trying to find your voice, which takes a little bit of time, and sort through your messaging and how you want to articulate and present yourself out there, if you are talking to one person, it is much easier to carry on a conversation. It’s much easier to be relatable and to be able to help solve some problems that are out there. If you’re talking to the masses, it’s hard to pinpoint that, and it’s hard to hard on the other end for them to actually feel like, oh, she gets me. You know, she actually understands what I’m going through. And it, you know, that personal level, I feel is just really important.

Kim Parkinson [00:08:28]:
Yeah, I can’t. I stress that often here as well. You really need to have that pinpointed avatar of who you’re speaking to, you know, because that. That is going to be pivotal for any kind of storytelling that you have. Right. So what. What role do you think that storytelling has in. In your effective branding?

Laurie Baines [00:08:52]:
I feel like it kind of bridges that gap. You know, it kind of bridges that gap from the strategy that you may have put Together, the visuals, the messaging, it really kind of just weaves through everything, and it helps you to become more relatable. It helps just create that resonance with your audience, and it helps you be, I guess, become memorable. You know, the way you show up and the way you present yourself to others. I feel like everyone has a story out there and how much of that, you know, it’s up to you to decide how much of a story you want to share, how deep do you want to go into the conversation? But it is so helpful to share from past experience because you may help someone else who may have a similar problem, or you may provide a new perspective for someone that was really struggling with something very similar. It might not be exactly the same, but, you know, they just. They can relate to you. Oh, yeah, I remember, you know, so.

Laurie Baines [00:10:00]:
And so was having some health issues, and they switched their diet or whatever. And I remember that their family had to adapt to the Sunday family dinner to accommodate. And I get that because, you know, that. That used to happen to me and, you know, there would always, you know, there would be a separate plate for me because I wanted to be able to participate in the family dinner. But, you know, maybe. Maybe there was a dietary restriction that I had at the time, or it’s just. It just makes that connection of feeling.

Kim Parkinson [00:10:32]:
Seen and heard lots of wisdom there. And. And honestly, I. I feel like maybe you’ve been listening to the podcast or maybe you and I are just sisters, because I have really. I’ve been really shouting this from the rooftops, too. You know, realistically, stories with your podcast, with your voice, with your brand even. They are so important to connect that personal brand, to connect to that. That personal touch.

Kim Parkinson [00:11:01]:
And there’s. There’s that saying that they have right now about how they’re. We’re in a trust recession. And when you have that personal brand connected to your personal story, how can people, you know, how can people not trust you when. When it’s true and authentic? Right? It’s just a way. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to know how you help clients, right? So how if a client comes to you and they saying, you know, I have these pretty colors, I have some sacred geometry, I have these beautiful photos I took on the beach and whatnot. But I’m not getting clients because, you know, when I write my newsletters, they’re like, all over the place.

Kim Parkinson [00:11:45]:
Where would you start with that? Where would you go to help them with that? What’s, you know, they. Maybe they have some type of imposter syndrome. Like, I Have to be like, so and so. So what do you think?

Laurie Baines [00:11:56]:
I would say that first they’re not broken. You know, there’s nothing wrong. You know, it’s not a fixing imposter syndrome or anything like that, but it’s really meeting them where they’re at, you know, acknowledging the feelings that they’re having. I myself have struggled with that in the past. And when you can look at situations with a fresh perspective, that’s really helpful. Another part of what I do in my signature framework and how I work with clients, the first part of it is really about rooting in, root and reflect. So it’s called reflect, actually. And it is about really honoring where you’re coming from.

Laurie Baines [00:12:34]:
And it is about getting clarity on your vision, reflecting on where you’ve been so that you can actually connect with those milestones that you have achieved over your life. The 20 years in corporate, yes, maybe it wasn’t an ideal fit for you, but you learned a heck of a lot and you’ve been through, you have a lot of experience, experience that is relatable and can be repurposed into your next reiteration of your life and your next evolution of your brand. So usually there’s a disconnect to what their vision is, to what their goals might be. They jumped right to the pretty stuff and they didn’t think about, you know, what am I bringing forward with me? What is this bigger picture that I see myself growing into and fully owning that they may not be ready to step into who they’re becoming. They have this dream, you know, in a year they want to be, you know, speaking on stages and they want to have their own podcast and they want to write a book and they want to do all of these things. And they may not be quite ready for that yet, but it’s those little steps that can help shift that so that they can actually step into that brand and try it on, Try it on. And I provide that perspective so that they can see themselves as her, they can see themselves as their next level self, even though they’re not, might not be ready for yet. So it’s like we’re taking those little steps to get there.

Laurie Baines [00:14:14]:
They don’t need everything all at once. I’m not someone who is going to suggest you need all the things you don’t need. The sales pages, the full website, the blog, gotta be on all the channels, gotta have an email list, all, you know, dot all the I’s and cross all the t’s. You just need to start and once you Figure out what. What feels out of alignment for you? It’s deciding, okay, where can I start? What’s one step I can take to get closer to that? And I really help them see that before we do strategy, before we do colors, before we do logos and all of those things. Yeah, because they are important, but they are not essential in the beginning, I think.

Kim Parkinson [00:15:01]:
Would you say if somebody was starting to think about their brand, what would one actionable step be for them to start thinking about? What would you say is that one thing? Like, I want you to start thinking about stories, mission, values. What would the one thing be?

Laurie Baines [00:15:18]:
The one thing I would say is probably your values and how. What’s important to you? Like, what is that, I guess, line in the sand, you know, integrity? Or is it caring and support? How do you want your audience to feel, and how do you want to make that resonance and that connection with them? Because that will help the stories, that will support the stories, that will support the messaging that you’re putting out there, and it will really help you bring a piece of you forward no matter what you’re doing, no matter what you’re putting out there. And it’s just a few, you know, just three to five different values maybe, that are important to you.

Kim Parkinson [00:16:03]:
Okay, that’s.

Laurie Baines [00:16:03]:
That’s easy.

Kim Parkinson [00:16:04]:
I think most people can probably come up with three to five right away.

Laurie Baines [00:16:08]:
I think so. I think the hardest part is probably narrowing it down. You know, usually I have people start with 20. You know, they’ll. They’ll get a word bank with some questions, and they start with, all right, pick 20. That really resonate with you. Now take away five. Now take away five more.

Laurie Baines [00:16:25]:
And now take away five more. So it’s like trying to get to narrow that down. This is important. However, this is so much more important, and that helps you really figure out what really means so much to you and what you would, you know, plant your flag in and really anchor your authority in how you’re showing up in whatever it is that you’re doing.

Kim Parkinson [00:16:49]:
Would you say that there’s a time when you might want to rebrand? Is there a certain age limit to it? Is it something that maybe you’re always looking at something that you should do every five years, 10 years, something, anything like that?

Laurie Baines [00:17:05]:
I don’t think there’s really a number to it. It’s a feeling. So if you are missing the mark, if you are not connecting with your ideal clients, if your messaging is falling flat, if your client, you know, you’re not selling the way things used to be. You might need to shift things, but it doesn’t mean you’re starting over. It means you’ve grown. It means that you’re evolving, you’re growing, your audience is evolving and growing. You may be introducing new offers or new methodologies into how you do things. And there’s a shift there that you just need to pivot a little bit.

Laurie Baines [00:17:43]:
You might need to just freshen things up a little bit. And it’s also you get clarity as you continue and as your confidence grows and as you get confident and as you show up more for your audience, there is this shift and growth over time. And so you might need a little adjustment. It’s not an every five year thing or an every ten year thing, but you’ll know when it’s just not really hitting the mark and you just, you just feel something’s off. You may not see it and you may not know what it is, but having a fresh perspective can be helpful to be able. Because you cannot see the label from inside the bottle.

Kim Parkinson [00:18:30]:
True. Yeah.

Laurie Baines [00:18:32]:
And sometimes you’re just so close to it that it is really hard to know what might be off.

Kim Parkinson [00:18:38]:
And is this part of your structure where you actually walk through the different products that they have, the different services that they have, and then you help them with that?

Laurie Baines [00:18:48]:
So the first part of how I work with clients is in the vision, values and reflection. So it’s really figuring out what it is and how they want to show up. The second part about what we do is where we start with the strategy and figuring out if someone has been in business for a few years. It’s re evaluating what they’ve started with. You know, have they cobbled together a bunch of different things that aren’t really working? Are there really big gaps in their customer experience? You know, what does that look like? Like, do you know if someone wants to buy from them? Is there a 10 step process to get them to check out if they want to book a call? Do they have to manually add it to the calendar or is it a seamless process? So it’s really looking at what works for them. Now most of my clients have come to me after being in business for a few years and not only does their brand feel a little off, but they’ve hired coaches over the years or they’ve, you know, they’ve done this course on, on this is how you should do things. Or they follow this online influencer and how they are setting up their sales calls and how they’re on all the platforms. And you know, it Might not work for them.

Laurie Baines [00:20:04]:
I’m all about finding what works for you, not necessarily what works for someone else. And so even, I guess even my business name, just be you. Creative is really about owning who you are, but it’s also about really showing up for you and figuring out what works best based on what you have acquired for experience and knowledge over time, and figuring out what that looks like from a client experience from time that, that it’s taking you to do things.

Kim Parkinson [00:20:42]:
I love that you acknowledge that. I actually have a coach myself. And first of all, I never thought I would have a male coach, but I do. And I absolutely adore his vision in his way. And he even says most of my, most of the people that are I coach are women. So he definitely has a connection to his femininity side. But one of the things he said is I really want you to have this first initial call is going to be 45 minutes and then, you know, at the end of it, it’s going to be an. It’s going to be 15 minutes.

Kim Parkinson [00:21:14]:
And keep them to that because, you know, you can get really over, you can go over. And he’s like, and then I offer, in this other course, I offer, you know, 380 minutes or whatever it is, and you can split that up however you want. And I said, no. Nope. Yeah, that’s not how my clientele works. That’s not how I’m gonna work. I’m gonna take them, it’s gonna be an hour. And if they don’t need the hour, great.

Kim Parkinson [00:21:41]:
If they need a little bit more than an hour, fine. It’s same thing on the back end. If the 15 minutes is not long enough for any kind of like wrap up call after the whole thing. So.

Laurie Baines [00:21:52]:
Yeah, absolutely not.

Kim Parkinson [00:21:53]:
And, and he was actually very open to it because, you know, he knows the type of women that I help. And he said, you know, I applaud you for saying to me no, because often they don’t. You know, often, like you mentioned, we follow the coach’s design and we follow that. And then somewhere along the line there’s a misalignment and absolutely. We haven’t followed our values right. To follow those. And I love that because you really, you’re nailing that in. Like if you have these already in place, then it’s so easy to say to a coach or an influencer, no, that doesn’t work for me.

Kim Parkinson [00:22:35]:
That’s not how I business. Yeah, right.

Laurie Baines [00:22:37]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Kim Parkinson [00:22:39]:
Oh my goodness.

Laurie Baines [00:22:40]:
You want to love your business, you know, it needs to work. For you not be hard, you know, not be. You don’t want, you know, automatically put up roadblocks.

Kim Parkinson [00:22:50]:
Yeah. So when somebody reaches out to you and wants to start, you know, maybe they’ve got a brand or maybe they don’t. How long do you guys work together for? Is it like a couple months?

Laurie Baines [00:23:05]:
No, forever. Forever. Well, let’s see. I have two different answers for that.

Kim Parkinson [00:23:12]:
Perfect.

Laurie Baines [00:23:13]:
If someone has been in business for a while, so their brand is evolving, so let’s say they’ve been in business for three to five years, in that case, we start with the vision and the strategy and then we will look at the creative and figure out creative direction and what needs to shift and fill in the gaps and things like that. And what that looks like is sometime probably, I would say probably three weeks, maybe three week time span where there’s some pre work that they do. We come together for strategy and then I implement through VIP days. So the process is very focused and aligned because we’ve already gone through this evolution of who they are and what they’re bringing out into their business. Now we’ve set a strategy and it’s really just aligning everything and executing. And so I keep that process pretty tight because we have focus and we have clarity and it’s just a matter of really just sitting down and let creativity flow. It’s amazing. If someone is newer to business, then it also could be, it could be just a few days as well.

Laurie Baines [00:24:26]:
Because that is not a time for someone to be spending thousands and thousands of dollars on doing all of the things. That is someone who just needs the essentials to get started. And so my process is a little bit different. It’s a little more semi custom, a little more template, a little more diy. But I’ll show you how to do it so that it’s an elevated level and you feel like it’s custom because you’ve co created with me. And so I feel like stretching out that process for months and months and months. Just nobody has time for that. I want people to be able to really embrace and embody their brand and just be able to show up and feel confident around that.

Laurie Baines [00:25:10]:
And I meet them where they are so that that can happen pretty quickly.

Kim Parkinson [00:25:16]:
That is absolutely great. And I love that you have two different styles, one for beginners, one for experienced and bring it in that VIP day. That is amazing. I don’t do enough VIP days. I think those are easy, right? Well, I mean, I say they’re easy, but they have a lot of work.

Laurie Baines [00:25:36]:
It is so much more productive. And it’s collaborative. So my clients get to see things as it’s happening, as it’s unfolding, and they feel like it’s part of the process. And all of a sudden it’s done and like, oh my gosh, it’s ready, you know, it’s ready. I can launch tomorrow. You know, it’s like, it’s exciting to watch it all come together.

Kim Parkinson [00:25:58]:
Just in case somebody does not know what a VIP day, could you just give us a quick little synopsis of what a VIP day is?

Laurie Baines [00:26:06]:
Absolutely. So it’s technically not just a day. I classify it as a VIP experience, actually. Some clients may need more than one day to complete the transformation that their particular business needs. But what it is is some pre work that we do together. It’s strategy. And so when I actually sit down to create and to actually implement, I have everything I need. I have all the copy, I have all of the logos, the pictures.

Laurie Baines [00:26:33]:
I have a plan, I know the strategy, I know the full vision. I have creative direction, I have everything. And I just sit down and go. And that is when creativity just kind of flows. It is just an amazing, amazing thing. It is like seven, eight hours of actual, like really focused time. And when you sit down knowing that you have everything you need, it all comes together and they’re seeing that happen. It’s not that it’s easier per se.

Laurie Baines [00:27:04]:
It still takes the same amount of time. You know, if I. If a 12 week branding project really is about the same amount of time, or a 12 week website project, it really is about the same amount of work time or implementation time. However, people don’t have time to wait 12 weeks for their website to be done. They needed it a month ago and they forgot to ask. And now they need copy and they need support around what does the journey look like. They need their funnel mapped out, whatever it is to make the experience complete and we solve all that. My process is really about finding the right solution for them and meeting them where they’re at.

Laurie Baines [00:27:49]:
Because every project is different.

Kim Parkinson [00:27:51]:
Yeah, we’re all very unique and we all need, we all need that. I really feel that to my core, when I help women as well is I just everybody is unique. And while I have like a cookie cutter base, that cookie cutter is just made out of paper because we’ll just change it like a framework.

Laurie Baines [00:28:11]:
It’s kind of like that starting point. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Kim Parkinson [00:28:15]:
Excellent. All right, so what would you say to an entrepreneur who might be struggling with any type of self promotion?

Laurie Baines [00:28:23]:
Well, I would say that to get really clear on how they can help. You know, they’re sharing. They’re not selling well, maybe they are, but they’re really sharing. What they’re doing is really sharing how they can help. From past experience. I’ve been through this. I don’t want you to have to struggle through this. Let’s shortcut this so that you can get further along and not have to go through xyz.

Laurie Baines [00:28:51]:
And if you’re not showing up or you’re not sharing, people can’t find you if you’re hiding. And I am guilty of. I am so guilty of this. And it’s hard. It can be hard, but people need your gifts. They need to experience what you have to offer. And so don’t hide it. Don’t hide it.

Laurie Baines [00:29:13]:
And I think another thing is that just normalizing the fear because it’s prevalent, it might be scary because you haven’t done it before, or it might make you feel uncomfortable, and nobody wants to feel uncomfortable. But doing it anyways and honoring that messy middle maybe is only going to get you further along. It’s going to get you outside that comfort zone where all the magic happens. And I feel like when you’re able to fully own and embody your brand, it feels different inside, and people will feel it on the outside, and so they’re going to match. I don’t want to call it Matt. It’s not magically like they will magnetically be attracted to you because they feel the energy coming. You know, they feel the energy when you actually are showing up authentically as who you are and embracing and embodying that. So share.

Laurie Baines [00:30:10]:
Share all of your goodness. Because somebody out there.

Kim Parkinson [00:30:14]:
Yeah, Yeah. I say that even in regards to podcasting with people, they can hear the excitement in your voice. Right. So it’s the same. It’s when. It’s. When you love that brand, you can. You could feel the palpable excitement coming off of that person, of what they’re doing.

Laurie Baines [00:30:33]:
Absolutely.

Kim Parkinson [00:30:34]:
I love that. All right, Lori, so tell me, how can people get a hold of you? If they’re looking to rebrand or they’re looking to brand for the first time, maybe they’ve cobbled it together. How can people get a hold of you and get started with you?

Laurie Baines [00:30:48]:
Today, the best place to find me is on Instagram. That’s where I hang out the most. And my Instagram is just the letter B, the letter U. Creative. And you can find me on my daily beach walks that I do in stories, and I’m Constantly sharing all kinds of interesting facts about brand and creativity and spirituality and all kinds of things that really bring your brand to life. My current offer is a brand clarity scorecard and it walks you through how to evaluate your brand from different lenses. And at the end you can actually share that with me. Just hit reply to one of the emails that I send you and share your scorecard with me.

Laurie Baines [00:31:41]:
I’d love to offer some suggestions and you can also book a laser focused brand blueprint session.

Kim Parkinson [00:31:49]:
Love that. So part of my podcasting strategy here is not just to do some interviews, but my next episode after this is going to be what I consider an integration episode. So I’m actually going to, after this, I’m going to go and grab your scorecard, I’m going to take the assessment and then I’m going to do a little podcast episode about that and about whatever correspondence we might have had after that that isn’t super depthful or anything like that. Nothing that’s personal necessarily, although maybe it’s fine. Maybe that, you know, maybe it’s fine. So this will be just like a way for, for the listeners to be able to, to kind of get that whole idea of like how easy it is and how, how simplified you make it to move forward to the next steps with you. So I love that.

Laurie Baines [00:32:40]:
I love that. Brings everything full circle.

Kim Parkinson [00:32:43]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we wrap up today?

Laurie Baines [00:32:49]:
I would like to share that this has been really fun and I am so excited that you invited to me to be a guest and I really enjoyed this experience. I have enjoyed listening to your podcast and someday there may be a podcast in my own future.

Kim Parkinson [00:33:08]:
I love that. I love that. And thank you. This has been absolutely amazing. I think branding is the part where a lot of spiritual entrepreneurs have a tendency to just put together the hex codes, the fonts and a couple of logos and say I branded. So I think your in depth information about the mission, the values, the is just so valuable today. So thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate it.

Laurie Baines [00:33:36]:
Thank you so much, Kim, for having me.

Kim Parkinson [00:33:39]:
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Podcasting for Spiritual Women. If you would like more strategy and tips and some tricks on how to make your podcast better, I recommend that you join my newsletter list. You can find that@kpcreativemedia.com newsletter until next time.

Until next week, talk to you then. Bye-bye now.